Some design questions from a newbie

[Dave Archer]

$80-100 is FAR over what I was hoping. I need it to be under 10 dollars each. In fact I was hoping for around $3. This is very confusing to me as I have seen parts like this before for smoking devices. In fact I own one!

As as you can see, the pipes are all meant to have caps. The top pic is the pipes with the cap and the bottom pic is pipes without caps. You can see the female threads inside the bowl.

Either one of these pipes sells for about $10 bucks. How do they get their cost down so much if female threading is so expensive? There just has to be another way.

These parts shown in the photos are not machined ......

They are Zinc Alloy pressure die-castings.
Moulded by the Millions...... in China.

Probably 15 seconds each process injection shot and Probably 50 parts at a time.

Then polished over, hot acid bath and colour anodised.


You will never compete with this.

Forget this idea and think of something else !!!!!

 

[COSenna]

I'm not looking to compete with it. My market isn't aimed at the same place. The parts I have shown aren't the full product. I just need to find a way to create something of this nature at a reasonable price. What if I were planning on buying 10,000 units at first, would there be another way to get the cost down?

 

[K.I.S.S.]

Hi COSenna,

Prototyping and production are two entirely different animals - prototyping is always an expensive process as it is time consuming and makes use of skilled manpower. The aim of mass produced products is to optimise the cycle time of each product whilst minimising costly human intervention.
You cannot compare the two. For mass production, there are various methods available, but all of these will entail an initial costly expenditure in order to achieve a low cost per part.
The samples that you have posted pictures of will probably have been made using a variety of mass production methods - some components are visibly plastic, whilst other metallic components would appear to be die cast Aluminium (rather than Zinc, owing to the colour anodizing variation shown). some other components may have either been pressure blown in an induction furnace or for some parts where heat resistance is not critical, they may have been plastic injection moulded, then ultrasonically welded together and then plated (you can electroplate some plastics...).
As for the female thread, the resolution isn't brilliant but it looks as though some are full thread and others are split thread - for the full thread, rotating sliding cores in a die cast mould will have been used and for the split thread, that would indicate a blown plastic injection mould.
All of these processes require a significant setup cost, for varying reasons. This doesn't mean that you can't do it - it just means that your prototypes will have to attract sufficient interest from an investor to set up the tooling. And Dave is right in that you can't compete against China, so don't. Get them made there.
I've had some excellent quality die cast production products made for me in China with very low tolerance stack ups in multiple interacting parts.
Don't be afraid of China, and you'd be surprised at the minimum order requirement for some Companies.
I would estimate the ex works cost of the pipes you've posted would be in the order of $2.00 for a production run of probably minimum qty 5000. Then you have your freight, import duties, distribution costs and profit, so $10.00 makes sense to me.
If you've not been scared off, I have an excellent translator and process sourcer in China who would be agreeable to assist you for a small fee (between you and her), so feel free to contact me if you'd like the details. China will tell you how to do it the cheapest, and that is cast in stone, but for prototyping, keep things local.
All the best,

K.I.S.S.

 

[Dave Archer]

I'm not looking to compete with it. My market isn't aimed at the same place. The parts I have shown aren't the full product. I just need to find a way to create something of this nature at a reasonable price. What if I were planning on buying 10,000 units at first, would there be another way to get the cost down?

You can't just buy the parts, you will have to get them made.

Someone will have to design them.

Each die mold set will cost about $ 6000, and you need three die mold sets.

Someone will have to design and make the molds.

Then there are the factory production time costs, the material costs, the polishing and anodising costs.

Transport costs.


Marketing, promotion and advertising costs.

Packaging and post costs.



All these costs will have to be paid for before you sell even the first item.



If you have a production run of 100, 000 parts, you may get the price down to $ 1 each.


How many do you think you will sell ?

 

[COSenna]

Its hard to tell how many I could or would sell. With the growing pot industry the market could grow exponentially. Currently there is one other product like the mine, however, the product is of POOR quality and marketing is almost no existent. I live in Colorado so I already have an upper hand in terms of demand and sellability. I can take out the cost of graphics, branding, marketing (my side anyway), and web development as I have degrees Graphic Design and Marketing.

After I had my prototype finished I was planning on throwing it up on Kickstarter.com and seeing how well it would do, while also getting more money to help me launch the entire project. Seeing as how expensive it seem to be becoming I grow weary by the day on if its a worthy investment or not. I have enough saved up that I could throw everything at it and get an awesome product, but alas, I am not that brave.

I may need to try a pitch to a small investment group and see what they think!

 

[kevin136]

That sounds good, you can bring it to production if the market like. I'm a mechanical engineer in Guangzhou China. Maybe can be kind of help.

 

[roserim]

What is your quantity?

 

[Ivan N]

Hi there!
I'm new to Mechanical Design Forum, this is my first post and I'm afraid I'm way too late in this conversation. Nevertheless I went all through the discussion as I found it very interesting.
COSenna, in case this topic is still alive, you can reduce costs by using standarised parts, i.e. for the middle part, the one with a male thread either side of the lip, consider using a -boss fitting- of the appropriate size. You can find such parts in catalogues for pneumatic and hydraulic fittings.
If you are still working on this project I can help you looking for the right one for you.
Cheerio!